4-1 Looks Bad, But No One Panic

Sorry,
but this looks not only bad this was more than bad at least in the second period.

let´s hope for the US that the missing players are really a lot better or they have more than just a problem at the world cup

It will be hard enough to make it into the second round because of a very hard group.

Posted from  Germany

A full strength US squad is better than the one 4 years ago that outplayed a better German squad.

Italy 4
Germany 1

Bad games happen, especially with undermanned squads.

GO NATS!

Posted from  United States

Not that it matters much anyway. We got whupped harder than a red headed stepchild in 20 minutes…

Lets hope for the host country’s sake that they play a much better game; after all if a second string team can hold you scoreless and dictate the pace for 73 minutes, imagine what someone such as Ecuador could do to you in 3 minutes,…

But IMO, nothing is more enjoyable than watching a Fan of Germany’s head explode trying to reson away a loss…I’m sorry I missed it this time.

“A full strength US squad is better than the one 4 years ago that outplayed a better German squad.”

perhabs but there were so many nations at so many events that “outplayed Germany” and still do not know why it was germany that won the match.

Ask the brits they have this impression for decades now and you can here that song everytime again and again after every lost match. The brave and better team lost against this poor playing but very lucky germans.

What a strange sport.

Beside that: Italy Czech Republic and Chana.
The US really needs a complete new team.

Posted from  Germany

“Ask the brits they have this impression for decades now and you can here that song everytime again and again after every lost match. The brave and better team lost against this poor playing but very lucky germans.

What a strange sport”

pot meet kettle

Why was it 4-1 against Italy? Yes I remember it was Klinsmann’s fault!… not that Germany was completely disoragnized and fell apart early on.

strange sport indeed.

The Manneschaft are a lot like a BMW engine, powerful, fast and reliable until it fails. When it fails, it fails spectacularly…

Easy there Thorsten,

First, please recognize that football enthusiasts in the US are a fairly objective group. Many things contribute to that phenomenon, but that’s another discussion. The point is: we fully recognize the quality of European football and Germany’s rightful place among Europe’s best. To a man, I think we’d all fully admit that the US has no business being ranked above Germany at this point in time.

So we have no trouble facing facts and having a measured footballing conversation. I’d suggest you do the same. For starters: while “outplayed Germany” may be a little strong, the clear suggestion here is that the result was “against the run of play” and not that “Germany got lucky”. Consult the tape…

Now, in this most recent game, you started your best players and we had 2-3 starters by coach Arena’s take. There were 2 oddball goals in the game, 1 on each side, so it played like a solid 3-0 victory for Germany. You should be proud of that result and the fact that your finishing was excellent, really top notch stuff. You closed well on the mistakes we made.

I think we can take away positives as well: excellent games from the likes of Gibbs, Mastroeni, Cherondolo and Convey. Each of these players proved once again they are quality international players who we can rely on in the World Cup. But also, given the amount of control that our less-than-full-strenght team was able to garner, it’s pretty clear that a full-strenth US team could close the gap. Perhaps the right stance for a Germany supporter should be to admit that the tight game the US gave Germany in the last world cup was not lucky, and further, that this game proved that Germany is still the better side, but clearly not by nearly as much as the scoreline indicates. I’m sure you feel the same about your measurement against Italy, right?

Posted from  United States

Convey had a good game going forward, but rarely backtracked to play defense.

I’m just curious, but what are you guys starting 11’s? Assuming of course no injuries, and that O’Brien and Reyna can play, here’s mine: (under the Bruce 3-5-2 formation)

McBride and Johnson as the two strikers. McBride is an aerial threat and Johnson has speed, and I think forwards need to complement one another. I would not pick Twellman and McBride to play at the same time because they are too similar.

In midfield, I would have Donovan as the attacking central midfielder, with Beasley on the Left and Dempsey on the right. The two holding midfielders would ideally be Claudio Reyna and Pablo Mastroeni.

If O’Brien really is back from injury and 100%, then he should play in place of Pablo.

The three defenders presents the major problem, but of course Gooch in the center, Cherundolo on the right, and probably Bocanegra on the left.

I know that Gibbs and Lewis have tried out the left back spot, but Bocanegra has more experience playing the left back spot. I think the “left back” is a problem area for almost every national team, so I’m not too concerned about it.

Posted from  United States

[...] Thanks to my new DVR box, I managed to record the US vs. Germany friendly and watched it tonight. Most fans around the world are going to see the 4:1 result and chuckle at it, but not me. It amazes me how far the US team has come over the last couple of decades. Most of you remember as far back as Tony Meola, Eric Wynalda, and Tab Ramos. I am talking about the time when Rick Davis was the captaining the US! [...]

Posted from  United States

1. I do not believe that the german team will play a great role at the WC this year.
Simply because our defence is not strong enough this time and the defence wins such a event.
We should be very proud if this young team that clearly does not belong to the best temas in the world makes it into the 1/4 final.
That would be even more than we deserve.

2. In terms of the US.
I think more important than playing with a B-team was the fact that the saison in the uS has not started yet and we could see the pysical problems in the second half. This is always deadly against a german team even a bad german team.

3. But looking at your group it would be tough for every team to make it into the second round. The Czechs have a very good team and they were my favorite for the european championships and i still belive that they had the best team two years ago.
Italy is always strong but there are also reasons why they have not won a cup for so many years.

Looking at hte european championships and the last WC everythinbg is possible but it needs more than just luck for the US team to reach the second round even with the A team and everybody who is reasonable knows that. The US has simply bad luck with the group.

Just the opposite is true for germany and this is the only hope for our team because we never like group games where we have to dominate matches this is not our way of playing football and clearly not with this team.

Everything is possible and this is what makes football so interesting. Greece is the european champion.

Posted from  Germany

Perhabs a gerneral statement about football.

Everybody loves the way for example the netherlands play football at least i do.
There are a lot other teams that often have the better technical skills that play more attacking style more atractive and so on.

But football is a team sport where the result counts and not who has the best individual players with the best skills. You have to form the best team that is able to proof that over several matches and not only one great game that for example spain often presents or the 1:0 we have done enough matches that costs italy often the win ( just look at 2002)

If i look back thrue the history (and i mean after our great team in the early 70s) the german press but also the public always had the impression that we have a bad team. Someone should read the comments about 1982 1986 1996 and so on. I do not have to mention the foreign press and the resons are clear german teams ( most of the time) do not play attractive football and i would even agree that often other teams “outplayed” Germany. But there are reasons why we have the statistics we have on the world but also on the even harder european level.

Posted from  Germany

First, let me respond to some of the things said here especially provided from Thorsten… The game and the result were wonderful for the Germans. That being said, that is exactly the problem. The Germans, at least according to all the press I could dig up, were calling for Klinnsman’s head on a plate and calling for mauling of the US team. Be that as it may, for a solid amount of time in that game, the US clearly controlled the run of play… disbarring a few mistakes from players who will not be playing in the world cup, the US ties or potentially wins that game. Its not to discredit the Germans, its just that, putting all those eggs in THAT basket doesnt work, they break. I’ve seldom seen a world class contender like Germany give the ball away so many times (its just that the second and third string US squad was unable to punish). However, if Beasley and Donovan and Reyna are there, the US, as exemplified against Mexico in 2002, attack as quickly as anyone in the world and they PUNISH dearly for mistakes in the back… The US as of now DOES deserve the ranking ahead of Germany, a game that has 9 to 11 starters against some players who would be considered 3rd string for our US team does not relegate the US to sub-par status when they have proven now for 4 years that they are a force to be reckoned with.

The US will not need much luck advancing out of their bracket. In fact, they were awarded the “bracket of death” and yet, its my opinion that the Czech’s are very over-rated, finishing second in their own group in qualifying (against granted an amazing Dutch team). I believe that the US will exploit this over-ratedness and show the world, just as they did in 2002 when they upset the then-number 2 team in the world, Portugal, that the Czech’s arent as good as people think and not as good as the US. That being my belief, the only thing the US has to fear is coming in 2nd in their group and playing the only seemingly unbeatable team in the world, Brazil.

Also, to Thorsten, defense HAS NOT WON championships recently, hence Brazil killing Germany in the final last year and Brazils recent success in general with a seemingly TOTAL lack of team defense (and please dont say that Roberto Carlos is a good defender). I agree that defense SHOULD win championships and often in Champions League and other championships like the EPL, defense DOES prevail… however, with an attack like you see in the World Cup, it has defied that rule and recently, the Ronaldo(s) and Ronaldinho(s) of the world dominate thoroughly the WC itself…

With respect to an earlier question about the starting line-up…. I think that with Gibbs back, Arena can and will implement his 3-5-2 (or 3-5-1-1) style. It should, in my opinion, look something like:

Eddie Pope-center back
Gibbs- left back
Cherundolo (or Hejduk)- right back

Reyna and Mastroeni as the two holding midfielders in front of those three

Donovan offensive center mid

Beasley- left outside wing
Convey (or Dempsey)- right outside wing

Mcbride and maybe Johnson(? on the second forward for now) up top…

The 3-5-2 will work well due to our amazing skill in the center midfield with Donovan, Reyna and Mostroeni… also, our 3 backs will be both strong and VERY fast with Pope and Gibbs (esp Gibbs, did you see him close Ballack on the 6 yard line after Berhalter literally almost gave Ballack a goal?) Also, the 3-5-2 will allow Beasley, as he usually does and Convey as he is beginning to do, to exploit the other teams’ inability to keep up with the speed of those guys and thus, our outside attack will once again flurish as it did against both Mexico and Germany in 2002, making the US a dangerous team to watch for.

Posted from  United States

to Steve,

Perhabs the US team is better than the german team (i even doubt that) but that is not your problem looking at the time table and the teams you face.
Good luck with the czechs.
I would agree that they are not as strong as two years ago but i am very happy that they are in a different group than the german team and if they got a run it is very hard to stop them. Just look at the match against the netherlands at the european championships and they had a hard qualification group. The netherlands were able to beat them after several times losing against the czechs and i also would not want to play against the netherlands in my group.

Sure you could be the suprice of the cup as four years ago germany or greece two years ago but face it it would be a suprice if you make it into the second round and if you are so sure you should bet money on that you can earn a lot because the majority of football fans have a different opinion.

To the US team look at your guys where they play and what role they play in their teams.

Donovan you mean that guy that failed in Leverkusen several times and played mainly in the second regionaliga team and prefers to play in california now where it is warm and not so competitive? WoW

reyna??? Come on

Look at the czech team or italy and realize it would be a real suprize perhabs not luck ( this is up to your team) but clearly a suprise.

We could continue this list of players but feel free to believe that the uS team is better than the czechs or even the italian team.
We will see that in some months.
The truth is on the field and your record is not very bright there even against the poor german team.
by the way what let you belive that the US is better than the german team because you lost in 2002 a mathc where you had the impression beeing the better team while you lost in 2002 before the WC 4:2 and 2005 4:1 where you had a B team and what was exactly the excuse for losing in rostock 2002 and the other games?

I even found a result where the US beat germany it was a friendly 1999 in the US.

by the way brazil has and had a very strong defence this time and at the last WC.
brazil wa snot able to win a WC for 35 years because their defence was not good enough. They changed their style and play more european now and they are successfull. names like Falcao Sokrates and so on all great players that never won a WC. In the 60s 70 and 80s great teams best skills no victory for Brazil.
carlos is not hte brazilian defence and in the past he was able to do his job because he was very fast and he was so strong on the offence but his days are more or less gone.
All german victories were based on a solid defence with a more or less good offense ( at least sometimes)
greece became european champion because of their defence.
Where should i stop?

You can become a champion without a world class offense but never without a world class defence.

Posted from  Germany

Thorsten,

I do not dispute the results from the US v Germany games, not this result nor the previous ones… the result speaks all that needs to be said essentially in football and thats the way it will always be (which is part of my frustration with the game but also a major part of why i love the game)… that being said, the US did run the Germans in the WC, Kahn simply cheated x2 when he pulled a goal out from behind the line and there was a handball on the goal line. and yet, the germans move on. its no problem. and its true that the germans won 4-1. the results then with my belief that they are all that matter, would suggest that the Germans are a better team per the recent matches. However, my point was that the Germans have had amazing losses, and bad ones at that. As you said earlier, many play better than the Germans and walk away with a loss which is part of the reason I grew up loving German football. But, now that i am older and wiser and break and disect games and film, i can tell you that the US as a team has more potential than the Germans do. Now potential does not always equate to talent and wins (the germans have done a good job of making potential into talent) but strictly speaking, the US has more ability than the Germans do as of now. I say that because our B team was able to dictate your A team for quite a substantial amount of time in the recent game and thus, I believe that our A team would more than dictate your A team. I predicted a 5-0 loss just when the roster for the US came out. I think that our coach is smart for doing what he did and playing who he played… also, you must know that your coach is an apprentice to our coach here in California and our coach has given him direction recently with regard to handling his team, his formation, handling his press etc…

To the WC, I do not believe that the US will be lucky or that the Czechs or Italians are better than the US… the glory of football however is that I could be DEAD wrong. you break down our roster and you criticize it which is fine to do really. But saying that Donovan COULD not play in Germany is quite a statement. He dominated you national team in 2002 and had one of the games of his life. People make excuses for Dennis Bergkamp all the time because he refuses to fly on a plane and that affects his game. Donovan was not happy in Germany, he was a young prospect who was used to the warm weather and having his family, as he is (or appears to be according to out press) very family oriented. There is nothing wrong with that and his successes, if not already enough, will, in my opinion, be proven this summer in the WC. Reyna has been a star in Europe for years now, i dont see where his criticisms can come from? He is professional, calm, quick, and always able to contend with people like Ballack without much of a problem in my opinion.

I agree that the Czechs and Italy are very good teams, so was Portugal in 2002 and so was South Korea (by the way which we were the only team to not lose to them prior to the semi final). Our road to the last 8 in Japan was TOUGH to say the least, playing the number 2 team in the world and then tying the host who didnt lose until the semi finals. I cannot say for sure what will happen, I can only say that from the last time, we have more experience and even more talent which is dangerous for everyone else. And on top of that, our road last time was similar in difficulty to our difficult challenge this time, I have on fears. And as I said, if you review the way that FIFA ranks the world teams, you see that they take into accout who is played and wins and losses etc and the US is ranked ahead of the Italians for a reason (at least in my opinion).

Also, I agreed that in Europe, world class defense is necessary to win championships. However, I more than disagree that Brazil changed their style to the “euro” style… they have led the world in soccer almost since the beginning of the game as we now know it. The europeans are constantly chasing Brazil. I think that saying that Brazil has a world class defense depends on how you define world class… good enough to win the WC yes but calling it world class is a bit of an overstatement. Please, dont get it wrong, Brazil wins with offense and scoring, and i expect that ESPECIALLY this time around with the forwards they have. its my opinion that Brzilian defenders are simply midfielders and forawrds who werent good enough in comparison to the likes of Ronaldo so they decided they would just play defense and make it to the national squad (hence Roberto Carlos, a forward playing outside defense)… The world has been chasing the brazilian style of play since Pele graced them…. the brazilians were NOT chasing the Euro style.

The US draw is amazingly tough and as i said, we here in the states acknowledge that we are in the group of death and yet, i am cautiously confident in our ability to advance and win the group with good play and matches against strong teams. I dont bet on football, confidence and gambling are 2 very different things. Let the world think as they will, they did so in 2002 and we all saw what happened, including the fact that the Germans somewhat cheated in their victory…

I say all this however knowing full-well that it could happen that the US could go to Germany and lose all 3 opening games under the right circumstances and injuries etc, its football and its the nature of the game… but i wont and i advise you not to be surprised if and when the US advance and win their group.

Posted from  United States

@Steve,

It is good to be a real fan of the national team and i believe in the uS where football is not so popular as in europe fans are perhabs even more “real” fans than here in Germany.

But your oppinion about your team is a little bit let me say too confident looking at the names, results and history of the uS team during the last years.

The beauty of the game is that everything can happen and that a no name team like south korea can reach the semi final because of a huge portion of fighing spirit and the advantage beeing hte host nation ( the only hope for my team).

I do not share your oppinion about the class of your players but that is not important and your team can proof me wrong and i wish you and your team the best for the world cup.

beside that the brazilians clearly changed their style. You can see that at players like Dunga in 1994 or at the present team. That´s why they are so successfull at the moment and in my view it would be a real suprise if another tema becomes WC this year. They still have the advantage of having the best palyers while they avoid th eold mistakes and show a good strategic order during the game. If you look at the history the brazilians had a great time in the late 50s and early 60s with pele and then than nearly four decades where they did not reach a final in the WC. For example germany reached five finals during that period where brazil had great players but often beat themselfs.

by the way i was in Dortmund and

“I say that because our B team was able to dictate your A team for quite a substantial amount of time in the recent game ”

you must clearly mean a different match.
During the complete 90 minutes your team had not a really good chance to reach a goal.
In the first period your team showed a good order and a more or less good defence. The main reason for this was that the germna team. After they did not strike in the first 15 minutes ( even with very good chances of Ballack and Podolski) they showed all our problems. The match was very slow, with a huge number of mistakes on both sites and horrible to watch from the 15 to the 45 minute and i really thought i would better be at home and not far away in dortmund.

In the second period your team showed huge pysical problems. As i said a good reason could be that the saison in the US has not started yet but i have never seen a team having htese problems at this level. It was more than easy for the german team and players like neuville who plays a really bad saison in Gladbach.

In the end good luck and hopefully you are right and not i am but my bet is for the Czechs and Italy but i have no idea about chana.

Posted from  Germany